Talia Dashow is a creativity mentor who guides clients in transforming their life and business with principles of brain plasticity to facilitate exploration and to create new habits so they can feel stronger emotionally, physically, spiritually, and creatively.

In this episode we discuss:

• The power of play to relieve stress
• Addressing Imposter Syndrome
• Engaging with your Inner Critic, and nurturing your Inner Child
• Why the process of creativity is so much more valuable than the outcome
• How asking “What if” helps you open to new possibilities

You can connect with Talia and learn about upcoming events on her website  and join her creative community in her Facebook group.

Susi Vine: Welcome back. I am so happy you are here with us this week. For my conversation with Talia Dosho Talia has been creating, using creativity to heal, learn, grow, and connect. All of her life. It’s how she’s wired. When Talia was little, she believed she was worthless. And that the only way she could be worthwhile was to change into whatever her parents wanted her to be.

Over the years. She’s used creativity, especially where it intersects with spirituality to love herself. Just the way she is. And it turns out that’s what her parents wanted. After all along the way. Talia has earned a BA in English at UC Berkeley, a certificate as a volunteer mediator and a certificate to lead Lego serious play workshops with decades of experience in transforming her own life.

Talia has expert tips and tricks to share with us to help us quiet. The inner critic and find our inner guidance. I’m so glad to Talia you that you made time. Thanks for joining us today. 

Talia Dashow: Oh, thank you so much for having me here. So it’s 

Susi Vine: hard. It’s hard when we’re little to come from that space where I can relate, I kind of considered myself to be a chameleon and I could fit into the roles that I perceived people wanted for.

And then I did study theater in college. So it’s funny how those skills tend to follow us and change over time. How did you come into this space or what led you from your work or love of creativity to put more focus in play like with these li Lego workshops and that sort of a thing. How did you come into this space where you are.

Talia Dashow: Yeah. Well, I had been trying to cigarette what I wanted to do when I grew up like my entire life. And so maybe 15 or so years ago, I took a course with some very smart people who said, you’re already doing something that is as natural to you as breathing, but it’s likely you don’t value it because we tend to think that we have to work hard at anything that.

So, what is it that you’re doing that is easy and natural and is part of how you are wired and let’s figure out what that is and find a way for you to do that. And that will just make everything easier. So with their help, I figured out that I bring play creativity and community building to everything I do.

I just do it. I’m not trying to, it’s just who I am. And so after I figured that out, I was like, well, okay. If they’re, if I’m wanna, if I’m wired for play, I want to find people who were playing it. ’cause it didn’t feel like playing at home was as big an issue, but play at work felt like it was really important to me.

So I that’s, when I discovered Lego serious play and I thought this was brilliant. They have some great ideas about using both sides of your brain and the hand brain connection and having something. Tangible to hold your ideas. So you don’t have to keep them in your head so that when you’re listening to other people, you’re not sitting there thinking, this is what I’m going to say.

This is what I’m going to say. This is what I’m going to say. And you have something to look at that they built well, so you can listen with your eyes as well. It was, there was a lot that was really good about it. I didn’t sell it well, though, so that did not end up being a career for me, but it was.

Since of this is a really important place that the world needs that I have. I can bring something of value into the. Well, 

Susi Vine: and I think it’s still a powerful tool in the toolkit, right? Lots of aha moments and realizations coming from that training. And I believe too, that when we get out of our heads or, you know, do do something that’s more manual than typing into a document that it’s easier to process.

So I love that using their. Toys that everyone is familiar with as kind of like another level of communication and being present in the moment, which is definitely a big aspect of creativity. 

Talia Dashow: And we were able to do some really serious work, but in a playful way, which takes some of the pressure off and a lot more creativity to come in and more possibility.

So, yeah, it’s there. It’s a nice, it’s nice to have that as a tool. 

Susi Vine: Yeah, I love that. And that stands out to me. When you say we can do some serious work and use play to make it a little easier, you know, to give us a touch point where we can meet, but also to take a little bit of the heaviness out of the thought process or the content of what is being worked through.

Yeah. Yeah. Super powerful. And I love that you put a priority on. Kind of a playful person myself. And no wonder we get 

Talia Dashow: along, I know it was just 

Susi Vine: a natural fit. We clicked like Lego 

Talia Dashow: pieces. Exactly. 

Susi Vine: And in my experience, in my opinion, it opens up a whole different. Side of our brain or it’s just so powerful.

It bringing us out of our stress that comes up through normal situations in life. Whether we’re at work or whatever’s going on at home, there tends to be some stress. Sometimes it’s higher or lower. And when we can make time for ourselves and have fun and play. And it lends itself beautifully to playing with family and the people that we love to write.

It’s not necessarily a solo activity, although it can be it’s that community building too. And I love that that community building is something that just naturally was a part of your, your process or your sweet spot. How did you become aware of that, that you just naturally sort of built community or brought people together?

Talia Dashow: One of the exercises that they did in this this class. It was trying to figure it out. They had us list like. I don’t know, like 30 different jobs that we would want. And the idea is, I don’t know if I had the right number, but the idea is that the first third is what’s on top of your head. And the second, third is what you thought about fairly often.

And the last third is stuff that you really kind of have to dig for that it’s not, but it may be older and maybe more gut level. It’s not. Brain. And so taking all of these together helps us figure out what are the things that these all have in common and community was one of the things that they all had in common.

And I just, I mean, I. Crave community. I want to be part of a stream of, of loving and supportive communities. I seek them out. I try to build them. I try to connect people. I, I, I love the idea of drawing people to me who have the same level of weirdness and, and play fullness that I have, but in their own special ways and having us all together in a community to just create magic together, I just think that’s so neat.

Yes. I love this me as much as them. I mean, that was one reason. I started the creativity class Mick and I was didn’t have anybody else to hang out with in person. So I’m like, I’m going to do this online 

Susi Vine: well, and, and that’s a lot too, right. Creative solutions are, when you notice something could be optimized.

Creativity leads. Find it find an answer. Yes. And what does this look like? What would that be? What if I did this? Yes. And I love your point about community too, because there’s something so. Uplifting and coming together and recognizing that we have more in common that separates us, even if we seem to be very different, which I loved when I was able to drop in on your creativity club, because people show up from all different careers, walks of life, different ages, and we do a couple of creative thinking exercises, no artistic skill required.

Yeah. It was just terrific to see what came out of that space and the laughter and the comradery that comes together very quickly, because we are wired to connect yet. And to go back to, you know, I mentioned briefly before, you know, creativity helps us to step out of stress to bring us out of that really narrow field of vision and open up our perspective and see solutions.

When we’re stressed, we unfortunately. Sometimes women reach out and do bring together their community. We’re we’re more the tendon befriend, you know, Pattern than men are, but often in stress, we withdraw from community just when we need it the most. And so 

Talia Dashow: when you’re stressed out, right, 

Susi Vine: right, right.

Or we don’t want to bring other people down or, but exactly to your point. I mean, it takes. Observation. Oh, I could use some support right now. Let me let someone know that I could use. Right. So, so yeah, it’s a beautiful way to come together and be connected and community in and of itself is a terrific way to relieve stress because we feel heard, but we also have that opportunity to support other people 

Talia Dashow: that feels really good and feels really.

Yeah, I love and laughter is a great way to relieve stress. And I find that there’s a lot of laughter when we do creativity games, because it’s kind of fun and silly and it’s, you know, we laugh and then everybody leaves feeling lighter. Yes. 

Susi Vine: Yeah. We can put down some of that stuff. That’s been, you know, wearing a groove in our brain and think outside the box and embrace the.

Cookie answers that come up right. To your point. You know, people who are weird, like you, I love the opportunity to let my freak flag fly because it’s sure nice to put down some of those trappings now in that, and just be authentic. 

Talia Dashow: And so I’m 

Susi Vine: curious because you were a bit of a shape-shifter as a youth and I was, as I’ve already confessed to chameleon.

And so, you know, in terms of authenticity and creativity how do you see that helping people be more authentic or do you feel like it’s a way that we can drop some of that, the trappings, or even something as, as big as like imposter syndrome?

Talia Dashow: I. Definitely see a lot of connections. I, I actually, I took what I was doing in the creativity club where we just playing creativity games and having fun and realize that everybody involved was having messages in their brains that said that there there’s wasn’t as good as everybody else. And I thought everybody else’s was brilliant and mine was the one that wasn’t as good.

And so I’m like, Hmm, this is a teaching moment. Here’s something that all of us, myself included need to hear sometimes is that we are judging ourselves so much more harshly than everybody else’s. And that, you know, I just wrote a sentence and it has no verb. How could it possibly be good? And somebody else says, but it has such a vocative language.

It’s painting this picture. I wish mine painted a picture. I’m like, but yours is a complete. So, you know, there there’s ways that everything that we create has value and is beautiful. And, and we are our own harshest critics and to find a group where we can, that helps us celebrate that, that what we create is a value is just so important.

And I find that if I’m with a group of people that I trust. And I had wrote something or created something and I don’t, I think it’s crap and somebody else in the group says it’s not crap. I think it’s great. I think there’s some brilliant to it. It opens up the possibility that not only am I judging myself too harshly for what I created.

But I might be create judging myself too harshly on everything else as well on this feeling that I’m an imposter in all of life, that I am not good enough in all of life that maybe that judgment is incorrect. Just the way the judgment of my, the thing that I created was incorrect. 

Susi Vine: Right, right. And all of that energy and effort and frustration that we put ourselves through trying to fit into something that feels more acceptable.

Just that just lost energy and effort and, and struggle. And so I love that. I’m glad that that teaching moment popped up and became crystal clear for you because I think that’s absolutely true and it takes that kind of opportunity to see things in other people sometimes, and then let that reflect back on us.

And, and I’ve said a number of times too, you know, we tend to say things to ourselves. We wouldn’t say to anyone, we carry. Absolutely. It can be so hard on ourselves. So for ex in that exact same vein too, to recognize, oh wow, they’re being so hard on themselves, but what they’ve done just naturally has merit and value and beauty and fun.

Oh, that could be true for what’s going on with me too. Right. We need that mirror. So I love that you’re providing. Yeah. 

Talia Dashow: And just as a another way of thinking about it, when we’re, we’re seeing such harsh things to ourselves, a lot of people, I know I’ve heard my husband say that if I’m not parsed with myself, I’m never going to change or grow or whatever in my experience is exactly.

Yeah. That if I’m harsh with myself, my inner six-year-old will not come out and play and I will not grow and I will dig in, oh, shoot. Sorry about that. And that it’s it’s only when I allow that The kindness that my inner six year old comes out and plays and I can be fully authentic and fully realized and present and have fun.

And then I can change because then I’m fine the way I am. But as soon as I get the message that I’m not okay, the way I am, I dig in my heels and I’m like, I’m a stubborn six year old and I am okay. The way I am. And you cannot convince me otherwise, but if I’m okay, the way I am, then it’s okay to change.

Then I can choose how I want to be. And if I want to choose to be something different that can do. 

Susi Vine: I love that I had the same conversation with my husband last week. And he said, well, if I’m not hard on myself, I mean, how will I get anything done on this? That’s fascinating. I’m glad I’m in my head and not yours.

So I love that that came up for him as well. And I agree. I sometimes feel like I feel that stubborn toddler come out. You know, I notice myself wanting to have temper tantrums and, and that’s, that’s the flag when we need to stop and say, Ooh, okay, why are we feeling unheard and unrecognized unsupported?

What, what needs to shift 

Talia Dashow: and having that conversation with yourself can make a huge difference. I mean, this is some of the things that I teach when I’m talking about imposter syndrome. We have these gremlins in our heads that tell us. That were no good. Or maybe it’s that emotional toddler. You’re saying I’m not going to listen to you.

That part of us is trying to protect us and has really important information for us. And if we can stop and sit down and have a conversation with that part of us, we get really good information. Can I give you an example? Yes, please. I was working on creating a course and I was like, I was testing it out with some trusted friends at first and first three weeks went really well.

And the fourth week was. And after the fourth week, this is going to be a six week course after the fourth week. I’m like, I’m giving up. I’m no good. I can’t do this. I’m like, oh, okay. Okay. This is exactly what I’m teaching about 

Susi Vine: funny whole life, because it’s these lessons. 

Talia Dashow: Let me stop for a moment. I forget what’s going on because it’s pretty clear that something in me is feeling very.

So, what is it that they’re trying to protect me? It’s trying to pivot, protect me from, protect me from failure. Protect me from embarrassment. Well, it’s a good thing. This was a test run. Was it? Isn’t it? Oh yeah. Okay. This wasn’t prime time. I can relax a little bit. So. What do you wish I had done differently?

This, this, this, this, this, this, I wish you would ask these different questions. Oh, let me take notes so I can figure out what the different questions are that I could ask. And this way I’ll have them written down and I won’t make the same mistakes the next time. Oh, oh, she’s taking my concerns seriously.

That gremlin in my head is like, okay, this I’m not being just dismissed. I’m being taken seriously. And this is good. I’m letting 

Susi Vine: that exactly. The more, our inner gremlin feels ignored or suppressed the louder and angrier. So beautiful when we honor it and we get curious. That’s so empowering. 

Talia Dashow: So then, you know, after a while I was like, anything else.

And my Bremen was like, no, I think that’s it. And I’m like, great, thank you so much. I am so appreciate all this information. It’s going to make my next time through so much better. And now I just want you to know I’ve got this. I’m an I’m going to take care of it. And my inner gremlin was like, great. I’m going to go play.

Yeah. 

Susi Vine: Well, and, and if anyone in the audience is sitting there thinking, wow, that’s a pretty extensive conversation to have in your own head. Let me invite you to bring this spirit of play and curiosity to that voice that tells you, you can’t do something it’s never been done that way. Who do you think you are?

It might sound like someone from your history, a teacher or mentor parents who. I 

Talia Dashow: thought they were protecting you, but maybe planted a seed of a limiting belief. 

Susi Vine: And to your point too, right? Oh, this fear of failure or not living up to your expectation of yourself, you know, we can be so hard on ourselves.

And the more we try to hit the mute button and say, this is. This is silly. This is not relevant. I need to ignore this the louder it gets. So if you enter into this 

Talia Dashow: possibility of a conversation, 

Susi Vine: yeah. Let’s sit down and get curious about this and see what is coming up. It’s as powerful as recognizing that when we let emotions come and we don’t just try to put a lid on it because it’s not appropriate.

I don’t have time. I don’t know how to deal with this 

Talia Dashow: right now. I don’t like this emotion. It doesn’t feel right. 

Susi Vine: They’re going to come back up in spades. Yes. And usually at a worst time. Yep. So when we recognize, okay, I don’t have to be afraid of emotions, their emotions, it’s energy in motion. I don’t have to be afraid of my inner gremlin and I don’t have to listen to everything it says, but when I get curious, There’s some real gold in there.

There’s some value, at least in understanding where these limiting beliefs might be coming from. Yeah. And then you can really, you can have it all out on the table. You can start putting the right blocks together 

Talia Dashow: and sometimes you can’t make a huge shift all at once. I mean, sometimes the all you can manage is a one degree shift.

I’m like that. I can’t do. Great, big shifts. I go see here, these people promising, you know, do this program and you’ll lose 90 pounds in six weeks, or I don’t know what you know, or do them in the program and you will re completely reinvent yourself. I’m like, oh my God, I don’t want to that’s way too much.

I’m that’s too big a shift to do, but I can do a one degree shift. And, you know, if you do a one degree shift and you’re sailing across the ocean, you end up in a very, very, very different place when you get to the other side. So what just a one degree shift can be super powerful and eff you’re comfortable with that one degree shift, you decide to make another one degree.

You can be even farther. So there’s never feel like you can’t, that, that you’re making too small, a change at any given time. And it only counts if you’re doing something big, it doesn’t doing something small is powerful and important and can make a huge change before. 

Susi Vine: And is worthy of celebrating and D 

Talia Dashow: yes, worthy of celebrating.

Susi Vine: Right. And I agree all 110%, and that’s something that I try to remind people or help them make peace with that. W small changes are worth recognizing it’s still a change it’s easier to follow through with and a radical shift. That’s going to be overwhelming and we’re going to want to snap back into the habit or the pattern that’s been comfortable, even if it wasn’t serving us, it’s become comfortable.

And so when you start making these one degree shifts, when you start making small changes and then recognizing I’m staying on track with this, I’m following through, how am I going to reward myself for. Honoring this commitment to myself to make this small change. Then we have that, that room opens up to build that capacity, right.

We start to move into that positive momentum as opposed to feeling like we’re pushing change and we have to carry this load. And willpower always runs dry, you know? Yeah. 

Talia Dashow: And it helps us build trust in ourselves and having that self. Helps make the next shift possible. It helps you be able to listen to the gremlins again, because, oh, I did this before I survived the experience.

I got something positive out of it. I can do this again. And having that self trust is huge because the gremlins get so much louder when we have give ourselves a record of not following through, because we always bite off more than we can. 

Susi Vine: I love that point. So yeah, building on those small wins, recognizing that we’re making change, that’s some, that’s some positive fuel to bring back to the table when you’re sitting down face to face with those gremlins that say, who do you think you are to do with this?

I took a chance over here and it might not have looked exactly the way that I thought, but look where it is now. Look what that grew into. Look what I’m capable of. Yeah. So now we’re going to take another chance. Yes, let’s go team.

I love it. 

Talia Dashow: Can I tell you something else that I’ve discovered is really helpful when I’m having this conversations? Yes, please. Sometimes having the conversation with the gremlin is super important. And sometimes even after I’ve had the conversation with the gremlins, it’s not shutting up and it’s not giving me any more useful information it’s just loud.

And what I’ve discovered is that if I can name that gremlin, it helps me distinguish that this is the fear and not the inner guidance that’s talking. So I have a tendency to call my grandma’s Cruella Deville. And I will say, oh, Cruella de Vil is really talkative today. She is really telling me a lot of stuff, but she does not have a history of being very accurate.

I want to listen to that voice, but because the gremlins get so loud, it makes it hard to hear the inner guidance, which is often very quiet. So. Being able to say, that’s not the voice I want to listen to. I want to make space to hear the voice that actually supports me. I find giving it a name is really helpful because then it’s not me.

It’s something else. 

Susi Vine: Hmm. I love that. And I’m glad that you shared that. I didn’t want to go on a tangent a minute ago, but it’s so perfectly in line with what I was thinking about saying, and I had another interview. It’s been a bit back, but I had Ariana Rollins on the podcast and she is phenomenal at helping us tune into that inner, true self, that higher guidance that we have.

And I love that you pointed out that. That one, doesn’t always have a megaphone, that’s a quieter guidance. And that’s why her work is so powerful in helping us recognize to see the moments in which we were guided by that to see the results and the blessings that that brings in. And so what I was going to say a few minutes ago is it’s almost like calling a committee meeting.

And recognizing there are different people at the table. It’s not only you and your inner gremlin who are having this conversation, but there’s also that higher self. And what they know is, is, you know, I do believe that our higher self knows what’s good for us, even though we might have patterns or blocks or resistances that come up, it’s all part of our natural growth cycle.

And And something that I believe too, is really helpful for people just in terms of recognizing and resolving their own stress. Again, is learning how to tune in to the messages and signals that are coming from our body. So maybe that higher self is a gut feeling, or maybe you feel that, you know, come up from around the heart space.

But wherever that is, we have to get in the practice of making that space and making some quiet time for it. Not saying like, this is a huge meditation practice, but just recognizing that it’s something to be tuning into so we can build that 

Talia Dashow: muscle to, and you know, one way to do it, that a lot, not everybody thinks about is creativity because when I am in the flow of making some.

I am so in the present and so open to hearing what the universe is telling me. And it’s like, I’m not sitting there planning what something is going to be. I mean, some projects require some planning, but there are other times that I just sit down and see what happens. And that’s one of the fun things about creativity is like, what happens if I do this, let’s try this and see what happens.

And then you get to. Assess that and go from there when I’m in that kind of flow and I’m just playing and it, things are just flowing and I’m just seeing what happens. I am so much more aligned with that inner guidance than that voice. That’s telling me what is, what my values are and what’s positive for me and where I want to be and making a little space for that type of creativity can help strengthen that connection with that inner voice that is not always very low.

Yes, 

Susi Vine: absolutely. I love that. And I agree completely. And, and to your point too, there’s a time and an opportunity for strategy, and it’s so powerful to create these opportunities for creativity and not holding very, you know, clear expectations, being open to that process. Evolving. And building our faith in that process.

Talia Dashow: Sometimes it can be hard to trust that, especially if you haven’t done it before. Like if there’s something fairly intimidating about a blank page in front of you and what am I going to do? And it has to be good. I think this was actually, it was really hard for me to ever do this type of experimental stuff in a, in a book.

Like I could do it on scratch. Because it was, I didn’t know if it was going to be good and I didn’t want to commit to putting it in the book unless I knew it was going to be good. So I actually had this practice where I would open up this like art book that I had that I have. And I’m like, I don’t know what’s going to happen.

It might not be good. I might not like. But I might love it and I don’t know yet. So let me start and see what happens and allowing it to suck. And knowing that my value as a human being, as an artist, as a creative person, is not dependent on the outcome of any one piece. And in fact, that the process is way more important than the outcome.

So I can have something. Yeah, but if it was a valuable process to get, there doesn’t matter what it looks like. And so, but it took a, it took some practice to be able to do this. It was not easily, initially very easy to do because it has to be good. If it goes into the book, I have to know ahead of time that it’s going to be good.

And you don’t always know that when you’re being creative. 

Susi Vine: Right. And you know, to, to call back on our earlier part of the conversation with. If some people might be wired as people pleasers. Yep. And feel like it has to have merit. It has to pass the grade or it’s not worth sharing or creating. So it’s so important to look for these opportunities where we have permission.

Exactly. And it’s okay if it, if it’s a fail, if it’s okay that it takes five times and it’s starting to look close to maybe something that was almost in my head, right? Exactly. The beauty 

Talia Dashow: is in the process. It’s in the process. And I feel like there’s some art classes in schools that kind of squelched, this, the ones where your.

Snowman has to have three parts. And if it has seven, it is not a snowman. And if it only has one, it is not a snowman and you did it wrong. And so we learn that we have to do it right. But that’s not really what art or creativity or plays about. It’s about the process and exploring. And what would it look like if I gave it seven body parts and noted, still stand up or what?

I want to have a snow centipede, or just see what happens, but explore the possibilities. And that exploration is fun and it doesn’t really matter what you end up with. 

Susi Vine: Yeah. And I believe that what if approach is so helpful in other aspects of life, then when we play in that space and then we come back to having something to solve at work or, you know, in relationships.

Give ourselves a little room to say, what if, what if this, what if that, and try out some opportunities again, I think when we’ve had that opportunity to practice, to kind of build that muscle of opportunity or exploration or curiosity then, and like I was saying before, too, you know, Curiosity and creativity bring us out of that narrow focus that we limit ourselves so much and opportunity or potential when we’re stressed.

We only see this. And when we come back into what, if you know, or that playful approach, anything 

Talia Dashow: is possible, it is huge. Can I tell you about a client of mine? So this is somebody who has a tendency to have. One, it thinks to be perfect ahead of time. It doesn’t want to start anything until it’s perfect or unless she knows it’s going to be perfect and also wants to have a lot of control over how things go.

And all of a sudden she had to sell her house and move. She had been through my course and. She was able to approach this as what, excuse me, what are some possibilities possible ways this could go rather than it has to go this way. And rather than I know ahead of time, what it’s going to be, she was able to say, What, what if, how could, what might?

And she was a lot less stressed. Things went a lot smoother and she had a much easier time handling the whole situation because she was, he had had that practice of. Try something, let’s explore some ideas. Let’s open. The possibility that divergent thinking is what people do for brainstorming. It’s how people become better problem solvers.

It’s really valuable. And I’ll often we are stuck in the convergent thinking of how can we get rid of the other options and hone in on what’s going to be best, but you need the divergent thinking also to be able to open up to what those possibilities. 

Susi Vine: That’s beautiful. I love that illustration. That’s really, I hope brings it home for people that it, the benefits or the merits are immediately applicable to whatever’s going on.

Talia Dashow: Whatever is going on 

Susi Vine: crazy life curve ball. Like all of a sudden you have to sell your home. To find possibility or potential in that is huge. Huge. Yeah. Oh, that’s I love that story. That’s beautiful. And, and it does it, it changes the whole tone of it. It changes the whole tone of life is happening to me too.

What would I do? Where would I take this? If it was up to me, what are the possible acceptable endings in my choose your own adventure story? 

Talia Dashow: And I, I’m just thinking about what it’s like when I’m stressed out. And I’m a mom. I snap at my kids. She. She’s much less stressed out than she would have been. It’s going to be so much easier for her kid.

Who’s now uprooting their house to be able to handle all of this and for her to be available to her kid. I mean, better fruit, their relationship with their husband. There’s so much that comes with. Of being able to let go of that. It has to be one way and open to possibility. And I’m just so thrilled for her that she has this either that it’s so much easier this time around and that it that’s going to have ripples.

It’s going to have ripples for her family. It’s going to have ripples for her business. It’s going to have ripples out. She, who even knows how far. 

Susi Vine: Yes. And I’m glad that you pointed out it’s going to be better for her family. Not only because it changes her frame of mind and perspective, but I really passionately believe that we’re healing a lot of generational patterns and trauma right now in the way that people are choosing to raise their children.

And we have so much potential. And just seeing her go through this process is so empowering for her child or children, to be able to see. I could do that too. Right. Or if something comes up for them, she can lead them through that process. Yeah, this feels really heavy and this wasn’t what you thought was going to happen.

So let’s play around with some possibilities here. What else could happen? Where could this go? Right. Wow. What tools to give shifts? Because I think so many people do, we, we, we get a picture in mind and that blank is filled. That story is written and this is the way now we are counting on it to unfold and.

One of the few things we can count on in life has changed. So the more tools we have to help us accept and move through change and be flexible is tremendously empowering. So I love that. 

Talia Dashow: And I love also what I mean, this could have such impact for her kid around. Their own negative thinking. You know, she she’s learning new skills with me for herself.

Now she can model them for her kid. And now she can talk about them with her kid that there’s, that, that also has ripple effects that sometimes when people are unsure about whether they want to join my group, because there’s a certain amount of time and there’s a commitment to. Being present with yourself and some uncomfortable stuff.

And it’s not always everybody’s first choice of things to do. Although I make it fun. There’s still some discomfort that comes up. But I think I T I S I asked them to think about their kids. Like, do your kids have negative self-talk or your kids full of self doubt? Do you want to model a different way?

Do you want to be able to talk to them about a different way? It’s big. This can, this can make, this can be really. 

Susi Vine: Yeah, exactly. I’m so glad you speak to that. And I’m glad that because we do, it’s easy to think of objections or limitations. I don’t have the time I’m already overextended. I really need to do this or that, that makes more sense.

Throwing some air quotes around that. Right. And when we put things in perspective and say, wow, what’s the ripple effect. One of the, the Things that’s really stuck with me as I keep on looking into. Positive psychology and the information and the research that’s coming out of that space is happiness or positive mindset, positivity and happiness have three degrees of impact.

We’re not only uplifting the people that we are first degree of interaction, but the people that they interact with and then another degree of people beyond them. So when you think about to your point, the ripple effect, right. Of doing this for yourself, Of being open to possibilities of looking for places in which this has other benefits.

It’s really powerful. 

Talia Dashow: It really is 

Susi Vine: play more. We need to make bumper stickers, play more. Absolutely creativity now.

And so one other question that I have for you too, and this is a bit, a bit divergent, but. We’re embracing that army. We are. How do you see creativity making space for more exploration with ourselves, with our connection, even with spirituality, how do you see that coming together or enhancing 

Talia Dashow: so much of creativity in my, in my feeling is making space.

Like that’s the, how I, how I do. I, when I have the creativity club, there’s permission to say whatever comes up because you can’t do it wrong because everything is, is creative and welcome and part of the process. And so the more we can be in spaces like that, I find, I mean, one reason I’m making a space like that is because I need that space.

I need to live in that space as much as possible to be able to have that feeling. I can’t do it wrong. This is everything I come up with as good. Let’s keep trying and see what happens. Let’s play with this idea. And it really opens up the possibility for divergent thinking. And it opens up space for me to be able to be quiet for a little while, to be able to listen to what’s coming through, like, what do I want this to be?

How do I want to do this? What feels right? What feels good? And I don’t always get there if I’m rushing through a project or like, I have to have it look like this or look like that. It’s not going to, I’m not going to get to that. Well, what feels right? So having that time and space and let’s explore and allow and see what happens and see what feels good and then see how to respond to what happens.

So that part didn’t feel so good. What do I want to do now? Or, wow. I didn’t expect that. I would want to take the project in this direction. Yeah. I guess we’ll see what happens, you know, that just, it just opens possibilities. 

Susi Vine: Yeah, absolutely. I think it, it gives us that space for grace to come through or to be discovered.

Yes. And it’s so it’s so lovely. Making space. I’m see. We’re so simpatico. So glad you hopped on the show with me today too, because it’s so true. And you know, I get to, and from this chair have conversations with people who are, you know, really focusing on helping people feel better, get to the root of physical issues.

And it is, I believe equally important to give ourselves this. Yeah, mental space energetic space. Spiritual opportunity because when we don’t, when we feel like we’ve just got to power through, get things done, check things off the list when stress has got the wheel, and we’re not really making our own choices that lays the foundation for disease.

For relationship issues for struggles at work, leading up to burnout, you know, so, and so this is so fundamental and it’s easy to feel like, oh, spaced play is so not at the top of my list. However, I propose. It’s a worthwhile experiment to look for these opportunities to join Talia’s creativity club drop in and see how the benefits show up, see how you have a different perspective.

And that’s what I heard from people too. After my creativity retreat was they felt that. Weeks afterward. They just had a different perspective when they were approaching projects or when they were starting something. Right. So the residual effect of it is not to be underestimated. Absolutely barely worthwhile investment of time.

Oh, this has been fun. We’ll have a link in the show notes. So your creativity club is pretty drop-in it’s every Thursday at this time. Schedule changes may happen because life happens, but exactly drop in event. And we’ll have your website listing too. So folks can stay current if any changes come together.

And is there anything else we’ve covered a lot of ground. Is there anything else that comes to mind you want to share before we go?

Talia Dashow: I have a masterclass coming up this Saturday for talking about I changed the name of it, but it’s basically dealing with imposter syndrome and some of the things that we talked about here, but I actually have creativity games that you can play with and be able to experience. And that’s a lot of fun.

The name of it this time around is WD 40 for the soul, all about getting unstuck from imposter syndrome and opening up to possibility 

Susi Vine: WD 40. 

Talia Dashow: If it’s supposed to move and it doesn’t WD 40, if it’s right moves and it’s not supposed to duct tape all your problems solved, let 

Susi Vine: Talia help round out your toolkit.

And whenever you catch it this episode, be sure to check in on her website for upcoming events, opportunities to get together workshops, master classes that are ongoing. Absolutely. And look for those one degree shifts and let those start to add up and let some of that weight be lifted 

Talia Dashow: and play. 

Susi Vine: Play more, play more beautiful Talia.

Thanks so much for making time today and joining my pleasure. 

Talia Dashow: Thank you so much for having me on 

Susi Vine: my pleasure as well. Look forward to having you on again soon. Take care. 

Talia Dashow: You too.